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 Post subject: Re: Criticism on Distrowatch
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:32 pm 
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hyperion wrote:
The installer alredy has an auto-partitionning option.

It cannot be simpler, the user is asked something like  : "do you want me to setup your disk ? yes/no"

Really impossible to make it simpler, sorry

JP


I haven't used this installer (since I used two already existing partitions) but does it support dualboot with windows? And resizing an existing windows partition? These tools would be very useful.

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism on Distrowatch
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:56 pm 
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What's windows? ;D

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism on Distrowatch
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:22 pm 
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sweetnsourbkr wrote:
What's windows? ;D


Apparently it is a small, unpopular OS which somehow maintains a degree of relevance within this community. Disgusting.

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism on Distrowatch
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:49 pm 
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Yes it does support dualbooting with windows XP. I have not tested Vista. I do not own it and I do not think I shall buy it either.

It may fail when it comes to recognizing another distro that uses grub instead of lilo.

Similarly, those distros that use grub for MBR have a hard time finding a distro that uses lilo.

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism on Distrowatch
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:12 pm 
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kazuya wrote:
Yes it does support dualbooting with windows XP. I have not tested Vista. I do not own it and I do not think I shall buy it either.

It may fail when it comes to recognizing another distro that uses grub instead of lilo.

Similarly, those distros that use grub for MBR have a hard time finding a distro that uses lilo.


So it can resize the Windows Partition automatically?

I know it can dualboot...what I meant, is that if I have a harddrive with only 1 partition with Windows XP, can it resize the partition and create new ones?

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism on Distrowatch
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:34 pm 
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Lord Illidan wrote:
So it can resize the Windows Partition automatically?

I know it can dualboot...what I meant, is that if I have a harddrive with only 1 partition with Windows XP, can it resize the partition and create new ones?


Well if you can make LVM. I hope that works. But ya using some partition tools you can resize win partitions. But i dont know after resizing, will the windows works normal or not. Coz Windows is called Stupid.

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism on Distrowatch
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:38 pm 
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sweetnsourbkr wrote:
What's windows? ;D


Lol  ;D

Ya its a very stupid software released by some stupid company which claims that its the software giant. And they keep shouting at OSS saying linux is cancer and other stupid idiotic stuffs. But who cares at a mad barking dog lol.  :D

Well ya its a very disgusting OS (software) which is very buggy and unstable plus even though there is alot of testing being done it, still it will very much unstable and nearly a crap software by stupid M$ company.

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism on Distrowatch
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:24 pm 
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Zenwalk addict wrote:
Well if you can make LVM. I hope that works. But ya using some partition tools you can resize win partitions. But i dont know after resizing, will the windows works normal or not. Coz Windows is called Stupid.


I've resized Windows partitions numerous times..no problems..

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism on Distrowatch
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:37 pm 
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Lord Illidan wrote:
So it can resize the Windows Partition automatically?


No - I believe the Zenwalk autopartitioner will claim the entire harddrive. Windows must reside on a different harddrive. Gentlemen, correct me if I'm wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism on Distrowatch
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:22 am 
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I really think there is a big difference between user friendly and beginner friendly. How is the ubuntu installer more user friendly then Zenwalk? First of all, you have to boot the liveCD wich take a longer while then the entire installation process. How is that user friendly? It also tells you MUST have a / larger then 2GB. What is the point with that, when I'm making /, /tmp, /usr, /var and /home partitions? If ubuntu somehow doesn't like your hardware, you are forced to download the alternative iso, and the recommended liveCD iso is then just a waste of time.

GUI might be more friendly to a windows user, because they feel at home with point and click. They are happy with just accepting the default answers, and click "next" "next" and "finnish". But I'm not interested in a distribution that has its goal to attract a windows user, since I'm not one of them. It is important that the installer does excactly what I wont it to do, and not just asume what I would like.

Ncurses based installation is great, and really fast. What could have been done in another way, is not automatically going to the next step when I'm done with one. For an instant when I'm choosing swap partition, I automatically has to select the mountpoints and then the «the install packages» instead of just choosing the steps from the main menu, like when I'm configuring lilo in expert mode.

It would also been nice with a partioner based on ncurses as well, since I always have to read the manual each time I'm partitioning from command line. Making partitions from command line is not one of my daily tasks ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Criticism on Distrowatch
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:33 am 
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Normally it is people who migrate from Windows that expect the so called point & click GUI installers, never willing to learn or try anything. No doubt, fdisk / cfdisk requires a person to know at least something about disks and partitioning and when one understands that , the Slackware /Zenwalk installer is a very simple one to use. In fact with Slackware , I find configuring X a little bit difficult and requiring patience. That problem has also been removed in Zenwalk. Add to this, the simplicity and faster booting and response of applications, Zenwalk gives a run for the money for the so called famous distros like Ubuntu / Mandriva.

Never had I had a problem with the community, as the Zen community is always responsive to fall back upon in case of need.

I think those reviews are simply biased.

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism on Distrowatch
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:52 am 
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Um. Yeah.
A couple of criticisms from a couple of minor irritants does not a bad distro make.
I used Slack since 9.0 and started using Zenwalk at the first public release of MiniSlack.
The thing about Linux distributions is niche fulfillment. If one distro doesn't do what you need the way you want, find another that does.
Instead, we get these insignificant, self-important little pinheads writing oft inaccurate diatribes regarding the target of this weeks animus.
The reason I became excited about Slackware was the lack of copious quantities of automation and graphical installers getting in the way and bogging things down.
Then came MiniSlack and, later, ZenWalk. I looked and thought "Hmm. How nice is this? Slackware based, scaled down, no servers, perfect for laptops."
And it was. Until....
Someone posted a critique regarding dependency checking. Now, we have dependency checking.
Then, I guess someone made a complaint about a lack of automatic hardware detection, because now we have that as well. And so on.
Where does it stop? When do Hyperion and the others say enough?
I, and I bet several others, began using MiniSlack and then Zenwalk, not for what it might become, but for exactly what it was. A small, fast, unencumbered Linux distro intended for desktop users and developers.
Now, we keep getting more and more automation. And, again, I have to ask. Where does it stop.
The way I see it, if every distro looks like Fedora, feels like Fedora and works like Fedora, why do we need more than Fedora(replace with Ubuntu, Suse, Mandriva or any other you wish)?
I like the original concept behind Zenwalk. Problem is, every time a bit of automation is added, a bit of that original concept gets stripped away.
Automation is fine for newbies and those who don't want to do it themselves. But, for once, can we please leave well enough alone for those of us who prefer to make our own decisions?
A graphical installer for Zenwalk? Think "fork". At least then I won't have to find my way to the exit.


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 Post subject: Re: Criticism on Distrowatch
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:27 am 
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woodardjd wrote:
Um. Yeah.
A couple of criticisms from a couple of minor irritants does not a bad distro make.
I used Slack since 9.0 and started using Zenwalk at the first public release of MiniSlack.
The thing about Linux distributions is niche fulfillment. If one distro doesn't do what you need the way you want, find another that does.
Instead, we get these insignificant, self-important little pinheads writing oft inaccurate diatribes regarding the target of this weeks animus.
The reason I became excited about Slackware was the lack of copious quantities of automation and graphical installers getting in the way and bogging things down.
Then came MiniSlack and, later, ZenWalk. I looked and thought "Hmm. How nice is this? Slackware based, scaled down, no servers, perfect for laptops."
And it was. Until....
Someone posted a critique regarding dependency checking. Now, we have dependency checking.
Then, I guess someone made a complaint about a lack of automatic hardware detection, because now we have that as well. And so on.
Where does it stop? When do Hyperion and the others say enough?
I, and I bet several others, began using MiniSlack and then Zenwalk, not for what it might become, but for exactly what it was. A small, fast, unencumbered Linux distro intended for desktop users and developers.
Now, we keep getting more and more automation. And, again, I have to ask. Where does it stop.
The way I see it, if every distro looks like Fedora, feels like Fedora and works like Fedora, why do we need more than Fedora(replace with Ubuntu, Suse, Mandriva or any other you wish)?
I like the original concept behind Zenwalk. Problem is, every time a bit of automation is added, a bit of that original concept gets stripped away.
Automation is fine for newbies and those who don't want to do it themselves. But, for once, can we please leave well enough alone for those of us who prefer to make our own decisions?
A graphical installer for Zenwalk? Think "fork". At least then I won't have to find my way to the exit.


Um....but why would automation and dep checking be bad???

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism on Distrowatch
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:59 am 
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[quote=∓quot;Lord Illidan"\]
Um....but why would automation and dep checking be bad???
[/quote]
You have a good point...

This is probably where we have to wisely considers 'suggested improvements'... where it is acceptable & where it should stop.

If some 'point & clic' improvement does not mean more complications under the hood + glut... then why not?
If it means added (& heavier) dependencies + possible conflicts in components... then why go ahead with it?

It may be a matter of being pragmatic rather than being ideological...
A fine balance which Zenwalk is doing pretty well with so far.

The point is that you can satisfy some of the people all the time & you can also satisfy all the people some of the time but you can never satisfy all the people all the time!

Therefore, some choice have to be made one way or another & there will always be some folks who will be unhappy about it... Tough!  ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism on Distrowatch
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 4:54 pm 

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Therefore, some choice have to be made one way or another & there will always be some folks who will be unhappy about it... Tough!

I agree ;)

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