It is currently Sat May 25, 2013 8:37 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 102 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Criticism on Distrowatch
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:47 am 
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:16 pm
Posts: 884
Who needs a graphical installer, hu?  :o

_________________
Zenwalk current
Core2 Duo 2.80 GHz, 4 GB RAM, GeForce 9400GT, HD audio, 10/100/1000 NIC onBoard, 1 TB HDD, 2x DVD-Burner
Zenwalk snapshot
P4 3.0 GHz, 1 GB RAM, GeForce 7600GS, 16 bit sound, 10/100 NIC onBoard, 2x 80 GB HDD, DVD-Burner, DVD-ROM


 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Criticism on Distrowatch
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:47 am 
Master Zenwalker
Master Zenwalker
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:40 pm
Posts: 529
Location: Romania
Borromini wrote:
Work is being done on a GTK installer, there is no deadline for it though.

I hope it will not be something like the Xubuntu thing. To install you need 192 RAM, to run the OS 64MB... come one... (yeah, I know its a live CD)


 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Criticism on Distrowatch
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:00 pm 
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:16 pm
Posts: 884
energiya wrote:
I hope it will not be something like the Xubuntu thing. To install you need 192 RAM, to run the OS 64MB... come one... (yeah, I know its a live CD)


This live-CD GUI-installer was one reason which made me shifting to Zenwalk. ZW installer is simple and fast and it should be easy enough to be used even by newbies.
Please don't spend your time for developing any graphical installer, this time is better spend on improve the existing installer e.g. add support for LVM1/2 and/or support for encrypted filesystems (this would have a value for the Zenserver project too).

_________________
Zenwalk current
Core2 Duo 2.80 GHz, 4 GB RAM, GeForce 9400GT, HD audio, 10/100/1000 NIC onBoard, 1 TB HDD, 2x DVD-Burner
Zenwalk snapshot
P4 3.0 GHz, 1 GB RAM, GeForce 7600GS, 16 bit sound, 10/100 NIC onBoard, 2x 80 GB HDD, DVD-Burner, DVD-ROM


 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Criticism on Distrowatch
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:56 pm 
Administrator
Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:52 am
Posts: 3731
Location: Nantes - France
Normally the graphical GTK installer is in the field of Zenlive (which might be called Zenwalk live in the future).

Zenwalk ncurses installer will be improved, and may include a GTK option in the future, but this is not really planed nor decided as a target for Zenwalk 4.6.

I still believe that ncurses is a great interface, efficient, and compatible with ANY video device (btw it can be mouse driven as well with GPM).

Thus the installer is seen only once by the user, after the install everything can be graphical, so it's not really important if new users are disapointed by the ncurses look, if they're about to install Zenwalk they must know why, and it's certainly not for the installer.

Installing is the technical part of an OS usage : it looks technical in Zenwalk , so what ?

Cheers

JP

_________________
A gentleman is someone who can code java, but doesn't..


Last edited by hyperion on Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Criticism on Distrowatch
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:58 pm 
Master Zenwalker
Master Zenwalker
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:47 pm
Posts: 582
Location: ever closer to bliss ....
My money's on the ncurses installer.  Go JP!!

_________________
ThinkZen member #000
Proud Thinkpad Zenwalker


 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Criticism on Distrowatch
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 2:06 pm 
Regular Zenwalker
Regular Zenwalker
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:38 pm
Posts: 73
Location: Northern Finland
sweetnsourbkr wrote:
My money's on the ncurses installer.  Go JP!!


+1

_________________
Image


 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Criticism on Distrowatch
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 2:17 pm 
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:16 pm
Posts: 884
hyperion wrote:
Thus the installer is seen only once by the user, after the install everything can be graphical, so it's not really important if new users are disapointed by the ncurses look, if they're about to install Zenwalk they must know why, and it's certainly not for the installer.

Installing is the technical part of an OS usage : it looks technical in Zenwalk , so what ?


Yeah stick with the ncurses based installer! ;)
I wonder which is the target group of ZW?
ZW is based on Slackware, which is a technical orientated distri for intermediate or advanced users, so ZW is not meant to be yet another distri for noobs, am I right?
So why do we need to have graphical installers then? Even a newbie wouldn't need it if those people wouldn't be so afraid of and try using the ncurses based installer, then they probably would understand that's not complicated at all!

JP, please keep ZW the KISS way, don't try to become "xubuntu-like"...

_________________
Zenwalk current
Core2 Duo 2.80 GHz, 4 GB RAM, GeForce 9400GT, HD audio, 10/100/1000 NIC onBoard, 1 TB HDD, 2x DVD-Burner
Zenwalk snapshot
P4 3.0 GHz, 1 GB RAM, GeForce 7600GS, 16 bit sound, 10/100 NIC onBoard, 2x 80 GB HDD, DVD-Burner, DVD-ROM


 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Criticism on Distrowatch
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 2:31 pm 
Community Packager
Community Packager
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 6:27 pm
Posts: 435
Location: Craon - France (53)
Quote:
ZW is based on Slackware, which is a technical orientated distri for intermediate or advanced users, so ZW is not meant to be yet another distri for noobs, am I right?


Why not a technical orientated distri for intermediate or advanced users, installable by noobs ?
I was totaly noob when I installed ZW 1.3 for the first time, but I WANT to leave M$, so, I made an effort and installed ZW with the ncurses installer.
I really think that a lightweight GUI installer will be a big + for ZW : this will give an access to a technical orientated distri for intermediate or advanced users but for noobs. So they will progress, and become intermediate or advanced users ;)
Free Softwares are made to be shared, so share, let's make zenwalk installable by noobs.

Just my 0.02€

Crocus

_________________
Linux ? Il y a moins bien, mais c'est plus cher ...


 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Criticism on Distrowatch
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 2:38 pm 
Regular Zenwalker
Regular Zenwalker

Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 1:59 pm
Posts: 64
Ncurses based installer is the most fail-safe method. It works on every monitor. I hope the colour of the text is a little brighter.

_________________
Zenwalk rules!


Last edited by wzx on Mon Mar 12, 2007 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Criticism on Distrowatch
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 3:02 pm 
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:16 pm
Posts: 884
Crocus wrote:
Why not a technical orientated distri for intermediate or advanced users, installable by noobs ?


Actually this is exactly what ZW already IS!


Crocus wrote:
I was totaly noob when I installed ZW 1.3 for the first time, but I WANT to leave M$, so, I made an effort and installed ZW with the ncurses installer.


And I suppose you succeed, right? So, what's the problem then? You just prooved yourself beeing able to install ZW by using the ncurses based installer. ;)
And you are now even a member of the ZW-Team yet!  ;D


Crocus wrote:
I really think that a lightweight GUI installer will be a big + for ZW : this will give an access to a technical orientated distri for intermediate or advanced users but for noobs. So they will progress, and become intermediate or advanced users ;)


If Newbies are not willing to try CLI, they will IMHO never progress to become intermediate or advanced.
Also advanced users may not satisfied anymore with the distri if it becomes "ubuntu-like"


Crocus wrote:
Free Softwares are made to be shared, so share, let's make zenwalk installable by noobs.


Yes, open source software is meant to be shared but this freedom has nothing to do with the ease of use.
However ease of use depends on how serious a person is to learn about how to setup things and get used to it.

The current ZW installer is not complicated at all, I really don't understand what makes some people thinking this is not easy to use? It does all the stuff for you, you don't even need to choose which packages to install...

_________________
Zenwalk current
Core2 Duo 2.80 GHz, 4 GB RAM, GeForce 9400GT, HD audio, 10/100/1000 NIC onBoard, 1 TB HDD, 2x DVD-Burner
Zenwalk snapshot
P4 3.0 GHz, 1 GB RAM, GeForce 7600GS, 16 bit sound, 10/100 NIC onBoard, 2x 80 GB HDD, DVD-Burner, DVD-ROM


Last edited by zenwalkuser on Mon Mar 12, 2007 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Criticism on Distrowatch
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 3:47 pm 
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:46 am
Posts: 3631
Location: Still on IPv4
Crocus: I think there already a lot of 'noobs' running Zenwalk (no offense); the installer might be a hurdle, but they take it.

_________________
Leenucks - the greatest thing since evolution theory || Questions about forum etiquette? Feel free to PM me.


 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Criticism on Distrowatch
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:38 pm 
Master Zenwalker
Master Zenwalker
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:40 pm
Posts: 529
Location: Romania
Borromini wrote:
Crocus: I think there already a lot of 'noobs' running Zenwalk (no offense); the installer might be a hurdle, but they take it.

All of us started as noobs, and I consider one remains a "noob" all his/her life. We only become more experienced.

hyperion wrote:
Installing is the technical part of an OS usage : it looks technical in Zenwalk , so what ?


My first noob experience was about 6 years ago with FreeBSD. Compared to the all text installer (I still think it was for experienced users) the Zenwalk installer is a breeze. But it leaves a lot of room for improvement. So +1 for the ncurses installer. Is better to improve the existing one than building a GTK installer that needs a lot of testing.

It should be more intuitive to use. Simplicity would keep ZW in the KISS way and also make it more simple to use, even for a noob.

As a conclusion, +1 for the developers. They did a nice thing so far and it can (and should) be improved.


Last edited by energiya on Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Criticism on Distrowatch
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:46 pm 
Master Zenwalker
Master Zenwalker
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 1:10 pm
Posts: 570
For me as a long term BSD user ... +1 for a ncurses-based installer.

And ... btw ... it's not a question of graphical or ncurses or text based if an installer is easy or not. We are also able to create a horrible complicated graphical installer.  :-*

_________________
visit #zenwalk on irc.freenode.net for Zenwalk-IRC-Channel
http://blog.crashmail.de


 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Criticism on Distrowatch
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 5:43 pm 
Master of the known universe
Master of the known universe
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:57 am
Posts: 1040
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany
Is there a way to adapt the colors of the ncurses-menu to the standart ZENColors? The installer may be practical, for noobs/admisn, complicated/easy....whatever you agree to, you musst say that the installer is rather ugly. Colorwise.

_________________
...and just when you thought, the shadows were safe...


 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Criticism on Distrowatch
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:08 pm 
Regular Zenwalker
Regular Zenwalker

Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:14 pm
Posts: 18
I am trying Zenwalk again and I am not very impressed again. Your installer is not your biggest problem or hurdle. Anaconda is better by orders of magnitude but the installer is workable. Your problem is that there are many, many distributions that do more of what a computer user wants to do and a lot easier.

1. I can't play or figure out how to play an audio cd on 4.4.1 - Almost every other distro I have tried autoplays them or at least opens up a file browser asking you what you want to do. I have posted for this and am waiting for help. This would be a good tips post or something like that instead of just leaving it as a problem for each new user. I got some help on my post, but I was directed to a thread where the poster had no audio. I have all kinds of audio: I can play MP3 DVDs, I have system sound, I have a horrible noise coming out when I play a DVD movie. *** addenda: "aku" was helpful and posted again on my thread about playing CDs. I will try out his fix after I log out. I am logging out because I can't open the DVD drives drawer. Some app. probably audacious (which is now not even running) has maintained control over it even though it is not mounted. Come On....

2. I put a DVD of Lord Of the Rings in, Audio is some loud as hell noise. There is no suitable ao codec or something like that found. NO OTHER DISTRO HAD ANY PROBLEM PLAYING this DVD.  A few distros insist on leaving out the lvdvdcss so that needs to be installed, but then you're home free. There is nothing KISS about having to mess around to get these very, very basic things accomplished. Since Win 98, computer users have been able to start working and put a CD or DVD in and listen to music or watch a video. You're not there yet...

3. I have read posts on this forum about "moving up the distrowatch hit list" and all of that, so don't respond back like a bunch of elitists that think there is a good reason to put out an unpolished "expert" distro. You either want to be slackware or you want more users. Decide which is the case. Right now, you are far, far behind the following in usability (and I have all of these installed):

Mepis, PLinuxOS, even Vector, Ubuntu, Mint, Kororaa, Sabayon, elive, Blag,Vine, Pardus, Dream, KateOS, VLOS, Frugalware, Foresight, SUSE, Mandriva and others that I did not keep.


Last edited by brjoon1021 on Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 102 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

All times are UTC


 Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
 
cron